Following my summary of the youngsters from Llywelyn Fawr and Joanna as well as the responses it acquired, We looked again through the genealogical pages on the subject of Gwladus Ddu. While it is correct, since multiple genealogists explain, you to definitely in the absence of specific proof hans svar somehow, this new title of your own mom off Gwladus Ddu need to are still ‘unknown’, I discovered no reason to change my personal achievement you to their own mother are Joanna rather than Tangwystyl.
She leftover no problem because of the Alexander II
You to definitely then origin on the subject of their people is the pursuing the abstract on the ‘Leaders and you can Queens regarding Britain’ a respected publication, published by Oxford College or university Press, page 106:
‘Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth, b.1173, young man from Iorwerth Drwyndwn (‘Flatnose’) and Marared, daughter of Madog ap Maredudd; acc. east Gwynedd 1195; married Joan, illegitimate child out of King John, 1205; issue: Gruffudd (illegitimate), Dafydd, Gwenllian, Helen, Gwladus, Margaret, Susanna; died 11 April 1240; buried: Aberconwy.’
Basic, let me pay tribute so you can Sharon. Their particular look to own ‘HBD’, ‘Drops the fresh Shadow’ and you will ‘The brand new Reckoning’, carried out through to the regarding the web based, are truly outstanding. About what you she has written in you to definitely trilogy stands close test today.
To prove that it is not merely me personally one to believes so, let me offer one to genealogist who’s a great partner out-of Sharon: “I am really keen on Sharon Kay Penman’s guides. While they commonly purely biographical, Personally i think more comfortable depending on their strive to ‘complete the latest blanks’ (because of the number of search she however set in their unique books), compared to in fact mentioning specific genealogical supply which i came around the during my look (I’m sure all of us come across source that way). In order to whoever has not yet see her really works, I would recommend they extremely highly, particularly if you need to get a become for just what lifetime are including 800 in years past.”
Following inquiries posed by the Beth, Suzanne and you will Sandy specifically, I embark on evaluating the fresh term out of Joanna’s mom (known hereafter, to possess ease of resource since ‘Clemence’ not ‘Clementia’) as a result of an event towards to help you-be-queen John. Once running upwards many blind alleys, mainly courtesy seeking reconcile the fresh chronology of just one into the almost every other, We have compensated about what employs. I do not point out that what i have written is decisive in almost any profile or means, as well as the truth is that we will probably never be yes regarding their unique title.
(a) This new illegitimate Joanna, daughter of “Clemence,” was definitely created out-of wedlock –– as well as ended up by Honorius III’s decree declaring their own genuine for the April 1226, even though in the place of bias into the queen otherwise realm of England (i.age., providing her no claim to that throne). This new decree, that has been transcribed about brand new, unpublished Check in off Honorius III (Reg. Vat. 13, fol. 122 ), claims inter alia one “Johannes Rex anglie solutus te genuerit de soluta,” and this, I am told, translates as “King John of The united kingdomt, when unmarried , fathered your of the a single lady.”
This step turned out to be much more state-of-the-art than just I would personally keeps consider possible!
It means Joanna may have been produced zero afterwards than just 1189 when John married Isabella away from Gloucester. Their particular mom, “Clemence” was most likely French otherwise Norman, because the facts on patent rolls out of John’s reign signifies that Joan is actually put regarding Normandy so you’re able to England for the December 1203, to arrange to have relationships so you’re able to Llywelyn ab Iorwerth (pick less than). Joanna died inside the Feb 1237.
(b) John’s genuine child Joan, of the Isabella from Angouleme (hitched to help you John for the 1200 during the decades a dozen!), came into this world from the Gloucester into the 22 July 1210 (understand the Tewkesbury Annals regarding Moves Show, vol. thirty-six.i, p. 59; the newest Worcester Annals, ibid., vol. thirty six.iv, p. 399; in addition to Rotuli Litterarum Patencium to have John’s Rule, pp. 124, 143). This is basically the Joan who after that hitched Alexander II from Scotland and you will she died inside the 1238, some months immediately following Joanna (this might make up some of the misunderstandings clear involving the two women).